Aquaria

Found the link to this from a post on digitpress.

If this thing is real, and not just a bunch of photoshopped / video edit stuff (the gameplay video looks real enough, I suppose, and they say they're going to IGF) then it may be the best thing to happen to PC gaming in a long time, IMO. I want to play this thing.

http://www.bit-blot.com/aquaria/

Hm... Yes, it does look nice.

That's exactly the type of game I'd like to see independent game developers make more of: games that can be taken seriously, not side amusements or light-hearted humorous joke games with colorful characters, but games that take themselves seriously, like Cave Story and Shoot the Bullet.

I do disagree with a lot of the sentiment expressed at http://www.tigsource.com/articles/2007/02/22/interview-greg-costikyan (and did so in a comment there) but he does have a point -- if Manifesto Games aims to fill the void left by the retreat of big commercial PC games, then it has to carry more games that take themselves seriously, games that the developers care deeply about, games that mean something, games you can take away a positive long-remembered experience from, not just ways to pass time, games more like Aquaria, or at least how Aquaria presents itself as. Not just games that are fun, but games that are great.

Ok, this is my first comment on this site (Thankyou GamesTM magazine for highlighting this site) so hello :)

The game above does look good (reminds me of Scuba Diver for the Speccy) and is just the sort of thing I'm looking for.

I am both excited and dissapointed by this [manifesto] website but find it difficult to express why. Perhaps it was because I already own most of the recommended games whilst some of the games on offer are just old (yet solid) games that are difficult to find these days, eg Jagged Alliance 2 (although Steam offers a bugged version). However, looking at the website mentioned by the OP I can't help but agree with the previous poster; there's a game I want to play.

I haven't explored the site in too much detail and am still not clear on Manifesto's direction.

How about I explain what I'm looking for and see if Manifesto fills the gap?

Like many people I'm growing tired of the homogenisation of games and the bizarre notion that a game cannot be 'good' unless it melts my PC and pushes it to the limits. My favourite game of all time, that still gets played every year is UFO: Enemy Unknown or XCOM to the US people. Even though I love the game to bits, there's a few things that irritate me each time I play. The first is the graphics. Now, I don't expect DX9 full 3D superscoobyshaders etc, I'm fine with 2D isometric. It's just that 256VGA looks bloody awful on a 19" monitor and even if I could find a way to window the game, it would be too small and fiddly. The second thing (and this is where, in my opinion the biggest and most important steps in gaming have been made) is the interface. It's clunky and unintuitive compared to what we generally get today. As for the atmosphere and core gameplay, it's timeless.

Whilst retro gaming may fill the game in the short term, particularly for younger generations who have missed out on some classic games and genres, someone needs to put the love and dedication into new games. Something that can rarely be done with large development teams and the Devil himself 'EA', breathing fire down their necks.

I guess 'indie' gaming has been around since year zero (well, gaming has its roots in bedroom programming), but is now attracting some mainstream attention and this is where I'm turning in the hope of more fulfilling gaming experiences.

So what am I looking for. Well, first and foremost, squad-level turn based strategies like XCOM, but with modern interfaces and functional graphics. By functional, I don't mean plain and dull, but graphics that support the atmosphere and gameplay vice graphics that hide the lack of imagination and depth of gameplay.

As way of an example, take Advance Wars on the GBA/DS. An excellent game (though not really my cup of tea as far as TBS games go) where the graphics and interface support the gameplay. SONY made a carbon copy for the PSP called Field Commander (I think) and blew their chance of making a killer game. Why? The 3D graphics were crude and ugly, loading times were excessive and you just couldn't help feeling that you were playing an Advance Wars clone. Therefore there was no individual character to the game, the backstory had no impact on the game and, well, it was just Advance Wars.

On the subject of 'forgotten' genres, I always find it dissapointing that they are instantly dismissed as non-viable 'because the genres only existed due to limitations of the hardware'. Why have turn based when you can have real time? I'll tell you why, using an XCOM type game as an example. In a real time (or even pause-time), you command your soldiers to move into firing position, cover etc. Get them to shoot, reload and other action. The important thing is that real-time puts you in command of the soldiers and you have to rely on AI for the majority of their actions. Herein lies the problem, no AI in a game will ever be able to behave as 'a soldier' in a 'squad' and operate as a unit of individuals. Turn based games though give you the opportunity to do exactly that as you have 100% control and can therefore implement squad based tactics far better (and ironically, more realistically) than real time.

There's plenty of room for modern games based on these forgotten genres, the game which is the focus the OP is a perfect example.

I'm currently enjoying Mr Robot by Moonpod. Simply put, it's ALIEN 8 with the benefit of modern graphics and a modern interface. It's great and worth all of the £15 (inc VAT) I paid for it.

As someone who grew up playing and creating tabletop wargames and roleplaying games, I often find games either overtly complex or the opposite. It seems you can't have a simple 3D FPS without some 'extra features' which detract from the action. DOOM3 is a good example of this. In the original DOOM games, the most complicated thing you had to do apart from shoot stuff was pick up coloured keys; DOOM3 was ruined as the core gameplay (run and gun as fast as possible and get scared) was constantly interrupted with audi messages, emails, codes for lockers etc... Then again, something like World of Warcraft works on a very basic (and in my opinion very boring) concept of dull fights during dull quests where the only impetus to continue is to gain new skills and equipment to make the combat sections a bit more interesting; yet the interest is not sustainable, therefore you need another 'level' to get more 'skills' to make the game interesting again. Strip away the pretty graphics and you're left with a shallow game where bragging rights provide the only reason to continue.

What about the subject of innovation? I guess I'll save that for later as I've just realised I'm supposed to be commenting on Aquaria......oops, sorry :)

Excellent comment aircool. I realize it's not Greg's fault that the games he can offer are not heads-and-shoulders above all other indie games, but we should at least be encouraging the better types of games to be created. It may take a little extra work to go from the level we're at now to the level the PC industry was at 10 years ago, but it can be done. With newer tools and technologies one person in six months can make games that used to take a team of people a year ten years ago, so *why don't* we create more games like those, instead of settling for games which look like they never went into any real playtesting and polishing phase but were just rushed out (like not all of, but perhaps most of, the games on this site)?

The reason Aveyond and The Shivah etc. are the best sellers on this site is because they have higher production values than most independent games. There's a lot of depth to them, you can play them for days. Most indie games are arcade-style games that you play for an evening and that's pretty much all there is to the game, you've learned everything, experienced all the game offers. We need games that absorb you for dozens of hours. Even action-arcade games on the SNES and NES had more depth and replay value than most the action-arcade games on this site.

And yes, I know every developer will hate me for this post, but I've been expressing the same ideas elsewhere (such as the indiegamer.com forums) -- why don't independent games at least attempt to equal the best of what the SNES had and the best of what the PC had 10 years ago, in terms of graphics and gameplay and polish? Why? Why? I've never received a good answer to that, except that it's too much work or that pixel art is a "lost" or "dead" art (ha). If it requires a team, team up with each other! There's no rule saying that 3 or 5 independent game developers can't get together and create a masterpiece that is clearly at par with or exceeds the best 2D games ever made. Even one person can do it if they spend a lot of time on it, as Cave Story shows.

(Incidentally my friends and I actually have a squad-based XCOM/Jagged Alliance style game in the works, although it's not a priority right now I hope to finish it by 2009. It's not focused on warfare, but on search-and-rescue; it has levels based on but set in fantasy world versions of Katrina, 9/11, the recent Pacific Ocean tidal wave, and other real-life disasters, but it includes combat occasionally. So I hope to answer the desire for XCOM style games one day, and I hope other developers will answer it too.)

Radical Poesis Games & Creations

At least things are moving forward now and the games are getting better :) Years ago when I used to write games for the PC (usually 2 players arcade games, think of the classic Boothill, but with spacecraft/tanks/soldiers etc..., doing the graphics was my favourite part, I just love the look of bitmapped sprites. Anyway, I'm terribly colourblind so it's not something I culd ever take up professionally.

Still, I love the attitude of the folks here and we all know things take time. Just knowing that there's people out there who are willing to work outside the restrictive industry's framework gives me a warm & fuzzy.

The game's industry's big players just don't seem to learn the lessons from the music industry crash and Hollywoods ever decreasing diversity.

Aircool: Well, hm.... If you like JA2, at least download the demos for War on Folvos and Massive Assault--I won't claim they're at the same level, but they're pretty nice. And if you like XCOM, Laser Squad Nemesis is worth looking at.

RinkuHero: "The reason Aveyond and The Shivah etc. are the best sellers on this site is because they have higher production values than most independent games"....

Uh... WHAT???

Personally, I love both games... but "higher production values" is most emphatically not the reason, in both cases. Shivah looks like an adventure game from the late 80s, and Aveyond looks like an RPG from the NES era. Aveyond has a great depth, and many hours of gameplay--but I'd argue that what makes both stand out is the writing. Probably the highest production value games on the site are ETROM and Dreamfall... Both of which I think have some merit, but also some flaws... Hopefully, what we're promoting isn't "higher production values," because we (and indies in general) can't possibly compete with the major publishers on that score, with their huge budgets, but instead creativity and independent vision...

Oh, btw... We're in touch with the Aquaria folks. Not sure we can get the game, though; there seems to be a pretty good chance they can get a conventional console publishing deal (and good for them!). But of course we'd be delighted to carry the game if that's feasible in future.

I've had Massive Assault for years since it was first released, and I've got the WoF demo, just haven't got round to playing it yet. lol, also got LSN about 2-3 years ago for 99pence, bargain. Trouble is, it's got no single player value beyond a few missions.

As for your mention of production values, I think there's a minimum needed, but it's more a case of neat & tidy vice flash & shiny. If the gameplay is strong enough to suck you in, you're onto a winner. I actually find that 2D sprites and isometric 3D can often be better that full 3D.

A great example is Moonpods 'Mr Robot'. I play that game for about an hour every night (then try and find a speccy emulator and a copy of Alien 8). Even though some of the levels have had me tearing my hair out in frustration (dammit, I've just nudged that crate a bit to far), the puzzles are brilliant and the hacking sub-game (something I've been waiting a long time to see in games ever since the first system shock) is simple, fun and distracting enough to prevent you getting bored of the main game.

As a final note, I tried the demo of Supreme Commander today. I loved Total Annihilation when it came out so I thought I'd give this demo a go. 20 minutes later, I was uninstalling the huge 1Gb+ demo. Why? Well despite it's high production values and shiny GFX, I found myself playing the game zoomed all the way out (where units just become icons) for most of the time. When I needed to get close up (to give orders and that's all) to the action, is was confusing with the amount of units on screen and starting to chug on a PC which is still considered 'above average' for gaming. What a waste of all that time and effort going into said production values when the game is only playable from a tactical map view (all 2D icons) or close up for the sole reason of giving orders. It's a prime example of losing focus on the important fundamentals of gameplay.

Aircool: The Gollops have, since then, implemented a much larger single-player campaign. Emphasis is still on online play, but you might consider downloading the newer version.

In general, I agree that "polish" is a better aesthetic than "production values..." Retro graphics can be fine, if enough effort has been paid to making the gameplay challenging at the right level, and the rest of the experience a pleasure.

Apologies for not being clear as to what I meant by production values. By production values I meant that the author cared about giving the player the best experience possible: when someone painstakingly works on the game until they were satisfied that the experience is as good as they could reasonably get it, that it's not just an amusement, actually something that's good to play, something that will leave a lasting positive impression on someone.